Welcome!

Java IoT Authors: Liz McMillan, Elizabeth White, Pat Romanski, Sematext Blog, Xenia von Wedel

Related Topics: Java IoT, IoT User Interface

Java IoT: Article

Why Can't Java EE Be More AJAX-Like?

"SOA Is Bigger than Java," Contends Brandon Werner, Decrying Both the "Sun Monarchy and JCP Worship"

"SOA is bigger than Java," says Brandon Werner (pictured), which is why BEA, IBM and the rest "aren't even submitting their SOA ideas to the JCP at all," he contends.

"In a world where we are moving to a SOA style of implementing business processes and modeling business needs into the architecture," Werner continues, "we must stop thinking in terms of concrete technology (faster bubble sort, smoother scrolling) and start thinking in terms of patterns and methodologies that best address the problem we are solving.

Cincinnati-based Werner's blogged observations bear the provocative title "How to Save JEE, And It’s Not EJB 3.0" and are spurred, he says, by his noticing what he discerns to be a concerted push by technical editors on "several journals" that he doesn't name (but which don't include Java Developer's Journal as he's not to date written for JDJ) to "talk up EJB 3.0" at the expense of frameworks like Hibernate and Spring.  

"As a person well versed in enterprise architecture and development," Werner declares, combatively, "I find this inevitable push to bury Hibernate and Spring as throwing a lot of very good tools down the drain in order to continue the Sun monarchy and JCP worship. However, from the enterprise viewpoint, it doesn’t matter if you use EJB 3.0, Spring or even Hibernate to eliminate the DAO issues in dependent objects of light-weight Composite Entity patterns, it’s all JEE to the architect."

"If Java EE is to survive as a platform," he continues, "we have to stop teaching JEE as a set of JCP blessed related technologies, often complicated, as implemented in the Glassfish reference implementation...I believe that the best way to move on to the JEE 5 era and eliminate all the weeping and gnashing of teeth that EJB 1.x and EJB 2.x introduced to developers is to teach JEE as a set of patterns and ideas, abstract from the actual implementations of various providers, and label them as best practices of the enterprise space."

Then Werner throws his bombshell: "Think AJAX."

"AJAX is not a set of any one company’s technologies, and there is not even a 'reference implementation' of it. You are free to use any backend you want, use any persistence you want, and even implement your own call-backs and improvements. The only thing AJAX is are a set of extremely important best practices and patterns developers use to create compelling web clients. Why can’t JEE be more AJAX like? Why do we have to politically migrate towards these reference JCP technologies when the actual, real JEE patterns don’t give a damn what you use?"

Werner reports in his blog that his comments already caused Gavin King (inventor of Hibernate & EJB3 spec) to take him to task on arguing to leave JBoss and JEE more open to disruptive technologies like Hibernate.  Posting his comment over at Javalobby, King counters that he doesn't see how his project is being "buried," as Werner claims.

"On the contrary," writes King (pictured below), "EJB3 gives us the opportunity to bring Hibernate and ORM technology to a much, much bigger group of people than was possible before. *You* might be lucky enough to be able to use whatever cool opensource technologies you can pick up off the street, but a lot of people are not that fortunate, and have to use stuff that is blessed by the standard."

King adds: 

"Before damning EJB3, actually take a look at the spec. Compare it to Hibernate. Look at the EntityManager API. Look at the transitive persistence model. Look at the query language. Where do you think those came from? (Yes, the APIs are not *exactly* the same as Hibernate - that is a natural and correct part of the specification process.)"

"Hibernate is not being buried," he continues, "rather, it is becoming the standard. To do that, we had to negotiate and work with other important stakeholders, especially Sun and Oracle. This is all Right and Good, and how it should be. More importantly, since the best practices in ORM are now well-documented in an actual formal spec, languages that come *after* Java will be able to look at the spec to understand how they should handle persistence. Just like Java learned remoting and managed transactions from the C++ community."

Asked by JDJ News Desk about the "Think AJAX" part of Werner's blog posting, King's response was as follows:
"AJAX exists because there is a standard for it: XmlHttpRequest. If you are really talking about AJAX frameworks, well, this is simply a sign of the immaturity of the whole space. In time successful solutions will emerge and eventually there might be a need to write standards. For now AJAX frameworks are all still basically experimental technology."
It all goes to show that the new year, 2006, will be as lively a year for Java as any for a while. Hold on to your hat!

More Stories By Jeremy Geelan

Jeremy Geelan is Chairman & CEO of the 21st Century Internet Group, Inc. and an Executive Academy Member of the International Academy of Digital Arts & Sciences. Formerly he was President & COO at Cloud Expo, Inc. and Conference Chair of the worldwide Cloud Expo series. He appears regularly at conferences and trade shows, speaking to technology audiences across six continents. You can follow him on twitter: @jg21.

Comments (9) View Comments

Share your thoughts on this story.

Add your comment
You must be signed in to add a comment. Sign-in | Register

In accordance with our Comment Policy, we encourage comments that are on topic, relevant and to-the-point. We will remove comments that include profanity, personal attacks, racial slurs, threats of violence, or other inappropriate material that violates our Terms and Conditions, and will block users who make repeated violations. We ask all readers to expect diversity of opinion and to treat one another with dignity and respect.


Most Recent Comments
JDJ News Desk 10/31/06 01:58:54 PM EST

'SOA is bigger than Java,' says Brandon Werner, which is why BEA, IBM and the rest 'aren't even submitting their SOA ideas to the JCP at all,' he contends. 'In a world where we are moving to a SOA style of implementing business processes and modeling business needs into the architecture, we must stop thinking in terms of concrete technology (faster bubble sort, smoother scrolling) and start thinking in terms of patterns and methodologies that best address the problem we are solving.'

SYS-CON Australia News Desk 10/30/06 08:59:45 AM EST

'SOA is bigger than Java,' says Brandon Werner, which is why BEA, IBM and the rest 'aren't even submitting their SOA ideas to the JCP at all,' he contends. 'In a world where we are moving to a SOA style of implementing business processes and modeling business needs into the architecture, we must stop thinking in terms of concrete technology (faster bubble sort, smoother scrolling) and start thinking in terms of patterns and methodologies that best address the problem we are solving.'

Vishal 10/02/06 08:22:15 PM EDT

I have replied in detail to recent chit chat in blogosphere about how EJB 3.0 and JEE should evolve.
EJB 3.0 and JBoss SEAM is a start to save JEE
Please feel free to provide feedback.

Vishal

Sreenath V 10/01/06 02:07:43 PM EDT

Dear All,
The Author is immature and i believe he has no experience in Enterprise development. He thinks internet application is all about AJAX. There are lots of other enterprise internet based application that really doesn't need AJAX based web applications, B2B uses webservices, EAI to communicate b/w application via internet...

Dear Author, please stop this kind of blog and be constructive rather than Destructive in your blogs. If this hurts you, i am sorry but you need to be constructive.

Regards,
Sreenath.V

Lambda Hacker 11 10/01/06 01:28:08 PM EDT

public Class KnowItAllJavaWeenie implements
EnterpriseBullShitInterface, TooManyAcronymsInterface,
PatternKnowitallInterface,
ArchitectsAreWaySmarterThanYouInterface,
ThinksJavaIsCoolInterface {
// there's nothing really to this implementation
}

Augusto 10/01/06 12:32:59 AM EDT

"we must stop thinking in terms of concrete technology (faster bubble sort, smoother scrolling) and start thinking in terms of patterns and methodologies that best address the problem we are solving."

No, you need to go back to CS 101.

Only morons are thinking about implementing a >>> "faster bubble sort" <<< ! The statement pretty much speaks for itself and actually means you not only have to be thinking about "concrete technologies" but you have to go back and learn basic algorithms and fundamental CS principles before thinking about simple patterns and be buzzword compliant.

j j 09/27/06 06:29:52 PM EDT

'SOA is bigger than Java,' says Brandon Werner, which is why BEA, IBM and the rest 'aren't even submitting their SOA ideas to the JCP at all,' he contends. 'In a world where we are moving to a SOA style of implementing business processes and modeling business needs into the architecture, we must stop thinking in terms of concrete technology (faster bubble sort, smoother scrolling) and start thinking in terms of patterns and methodologies that best address the problem we are solving.'

Dan Toraason 01/09/06 12:14:43 PM EST

After actually reading the article, I see that it is not about AJAX at all :)

But it is a change in thinking. I tend to agree that we should be less concerned about specific technologies (such as Hibernate), but should be more concerned with choosing and using the correct patterns correctly. That is really what software architecture is about and where its benefits come from, not from technology selections. I also agree, that to get the best benefit and reusablity and interoperability, we, and the industry, need to be looking at standards that provide uniform ways to implement the correct patterns. If I get it at all, that is what J2EE was always about. It's just that instead of waiting for J2EE to evolve as a standard (that's micro-evolution, not macro-evolution, just to be clear), anxious developers have built "competing" technology that will likely find its way into the standard JEE stack, it's just a matter of time. Standards necessarily take time to solidify.

So the question is not J2EE OR AJAX, its how to do AJAX with J2EE in a standard way. Or J2EE with Hibernate-like persistence. Or J2EE with Lightweight containers (ala Spring).

Don Babcock 01/04/06 01:35:21 PM EST

I believe that Brandon is correct in asserting that "SOA is bigger than Java." I've been in this business for over 30 years now and I've seen languages come and go in the mainstream but the problems remain pretty much the same year after year. The real progress will be made as we focus on that layer of abstraction. In that respect, recognition of patterns in the problem space and the development of best practice approaches will yield the best fruit. As much as I love Java, I do not expect it to last much longer than FORTRAN, C, COBOL, C++, Smalltalk, and many other languages which have all had their time on center stage. The various "frameworks" are all steps in moving us toward what will come after. If I could see clearly what that was, I could be the next Bill Gates (g). But it's clear that convergence on standards is key to real progress. Imagine how awkward it would be if one part of the country used different electrical standards than another (i.e. something other than 60Hz 120VAC.) It's bad enough having to have both metric and SAE tooling in my tool chest. As much as science fiction technologies seem to become science fact, I've wondered about the standards that Scotty (Star Trek) would have enjoyed. He never seemed to have a problem adapting the circuits in the food replicators to fix the phasers just in the nick of time. No Token Ring vs Ethernet for him - no VHS vs Betamax. Hibernate, AJAX, et al are approaches that will make their contributions and then we'll move on. There was a time when we all wrote out our own data stores. In the 80's RDB's and SQL largely relieved us of that burden just as word processing technology did away with the old SCM typewriter for all intents and purposes. It's hard to imagine an architecture that would abstract us from the tedium of the same old coding to the same degree that SQL and RDB's relieved us from read and writes to filesystems but it seems to be coming. These all seem to be steps in that direction. I can't wait.

@ThingsExpo Stories
As data explodes in quantity, importance and from new sources, the need for managing and protecting data residing across physical, virtual, and cloud environments grow with it. Managing data includes protecting it, indexing and classifying it for true, long-term management, compliance and E-Discovery. Commvault can ensure this with a single pane of glass solution – whether in a private cloud, a Service Provider delivered public cloud or a hybrid cloud environment – across the heterogeneous enter...
"IoT is going to be a huge industry with a lot of value for end users, for industries, for consumers, for manufacturers. How can we use cloud to effectively manage IoT applications," stated Ian Khan, Innovation & Marketing Manager at Solgeniakhela, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at @ThingsExpo, held November 3-5, 2015, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA.
@GonzalezCarmen has been ranked the Number One Influencer and @ThingsExpo has been named the Number One Brand in the “M2M 2016: Top 100 Influencers and Brands” by Onalytica. Onalytica analyzed tweets over the last 6 months mentioning the keywords M2M OR “Machine to Machine.” They then identified the top 100 most influential brands and individuals leading the discussion on Twitter.
Today we can collect lots and lots of performance data. We build beautiful dashboards and even have fancy query languages to access and transform the data. Still performance data is a secret language only a couple of people understand. The more business becomes digital the more stakeholders are interested in this data including how it relates to business. Some of these people have never used a monitoring tool before. They have a question on their mind like “How is my application doing” but no id...
Information technology is an industry that has always experienced change, and the dramatic change sweeping across the industry today could not be truthfully described as the first time we've seen such widespread change impacting customer investments. However, the rate of the change, and the potential outcomes from today's digital transformation has the distinct potential to separate the industry into two camps: Organizations that see the change coming, embrace it, and successful leverage it; and...
The Internet of Things (IoT) promises to simplify and streamline our lives by automating routine tasks that distract us from our goals. This promise is based on the ubiquitous deployment of smart, connected devices that link everything from industrial control systems to automobiles to refrigerators. Unfortunately, comparatively few of the devices currently deployed have been developed with an eye toward security, and as the DDoS attacks of late October 2016 have demonstrated, this oversight can ...
Extracting business value from Internet of Things (IoT) data doesn’t happen overnight. There are several requirements that must be satisfied, including IoT device enablement, data analysis, real-time detection of complex events and automated orchestration of actions. Unfortunately, too many companies fall short in achieving their business goals by implementing incomplete solutions or not focusing on tangible use cases. In his general session at @ThingsExpo, Dave McCarthy, Director of Products...
Machine Learning helps make complex systems more efficient. By applying advanced Machine Learning techniques such as Cognitive Fingerprinting, wind project operators can utilize these tools to learn from collected data, detect regular patterns, and optimize their own operations. In his session at 18th Cloud Expo, Stuart Gillen, Director of Business Development at SparkCognition, discussed how research has demonstrated the value of Machine Learning in delivering next generation analytics to impr...
More and more brands have jumped on the IoT bandwagon. We have an excess of wearables – activity trackers, smartwatches, smart glasses and sneakers, and more that track seemingly endless datapoints. However, most consumers have no idea what “IoT” means. Creating more wearables that track data shouldn't be the aim of brands; delivering meaningful, tangible relevance to their users should be. We're in a period in which the IoT pendulum is still swinging. Initially, it swung toward "smart for smar...
20th Cloud Expo, taking place June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY, will feature technical sessions from a rock star conference faculty and the leading industry players in the world. Cloud computing is now being embraced by a majority of enterprises of all sizes. Yesterday's debate about public vs. private has transformed into the reality of hybrid cloud: a recent survey shows that 74% of enterprises have a hybrid cloud strategy.
Businesses and business units of all sizes can benefit from cloud computing, but many don't want the cost, performance and security concerns of public cloud nor the complexity of building their own private clouds. Today, some cloud vendors are using artificial intelligence (AI) to simplify cloud deployment and management. In his session at 20th Cloud Expo, Ajay Gulati, Co-founder and CEO of ZeroStack, will discuss how AI can simplify cloud operations. He will cover the following topics: why clou...
Internet of @ThingsExpo, taking place June 6-8, 2017 at the Javits Center in New York City, New York, is co-located with the 20th International Cloud Expo and will feature technical sessions from a rock star conference faculty and the leading industry players in the world. @ThingsExpo New York Call for Papers is now open.
"ReadyTalk is an audio and web video conferencing provider. We've really come to embrace WebRTC as the platform for our future of technology," explained Dan Cunningham, CTO of ReadyTalk, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at WebRTC Summit at 19th Cloud Expo, held November 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA.
Successful digital transformation requires new organizational competencies and capabilities. Research tells us that the biggest impediment to successful transformation is human; consequently, the biggest enabler is a properly skilled and empowered workforce. In the digital age, new individual and collective competencies are required. In his session at 19th Cloud Expo, Bob Newhouse, CEO and founder of Agilitiv, drew together recent research and lessons learned from emerging and established compa...
Data is the fuel that drives the machine learning algorithmic engines and ultimately provides the business value. In his session at Cloud Expo, Ed Featherston, a director and senior enterprise architect at Collaborative Consulting, discussed the key considerations around quality, volume, timeliness, and pedigree that must be dealt with in order to properly fuel that engine.
Everyone knows that truly innovative companies learn as they go along, pushing boundaries in response to market changes and demands. What's more of a mystery is how to balance innovation on a fresh platform built from scratch with the legacy tech stack, product suite and customers that continue to serve as the business' foundation. In his General Session at 19th Cloud Expo, Michael Chambliss, Head of Engineering at ReadyTalk, discussed why and how ReadyTalk diverted from healthy revenue and mor...
We are always online. We access our data, our finances, work, and various services on the Internet. But we live in a congested world of information in which the roads were built two decades ago. The quest for better, faster Internet routing has been around for a decade, but nobody solved this problem. We’ve seen band-aid approaches like CDNs that attack a niche's slice of static content part of the Internet, but that’s it. It does not address the dynamic services-based Internet of today. It does...
The 20th International Cloud Expo has announced that its Call for Papers is open. Cloud Expo, to be held June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, brings together Cloud Computing, Big Data, Internet of Things, DevOps, Containers, Microservices and WebRTC to one location. With cloud computing driving a higher percentage of enterprise IT budgets every year, it becomes increasingly important to plant your flag in this fast-expanding business opportunity. Submit your speaking proposal ...
You have great SaaS business app ideas. You want to turn your idea quickly into a functional and engaging proof of concept. You need to be able to modify it to meet customers' needs, and you need to deliver a complete and secure SaaS application. How could you achieve all the above and yet avoid unforeseen IT requirements that add unnecessary cost and complexity? You also want your app to be responsive in any device at any time. In his session at 19th Cloud Expo, Mark Allen, General Manager of...
Bert Loomis was a visionary. This general session will highlight how Bert Loomis and people like him inspire us to build great things with small inventions. In their general session at 19th Cloud Expo, Harold Hannon, Architect at IBM Bluemix, and Michael O'Neill, Strategic Business Development at Nvidia, discussed the accelerating pace of AI development and how IBM Cloud and NVIDIA are partnering to bring AI capabilities to "every day," on-demand. They also reviewed two "free infrastructure" pr...