Welcome!

Java Authors: Liz McMillan, Elizabeth White, AppDynamics Blog, Roger Strukhoff, Yeshim Deniz

Related Topics: Java

Java: Article

James Gosling: "Java Is Under No Serious Threat From PHP, Ruby or C#"

Father of Java Reminds New York Audience That Java Works With All Languages

(March 9, 2006) - "There have been a number of language coming up lately," noted James Gosling today at Sun's World Wide Education & Research Conference in New York City when asked if Java was in any kind of danger from the newcomers. "PHP and Ruby are perfectly fine systems," he continued, "but they are scripting languages and get their power through specialization: they just generate web pages. But none of them attempt any serious breadth in the application domain and they both have really serious scaling and performance problems."

The Father of Java then dismissed Microsoft's C# as having had potential, but no longer: "We were afraid they were going to do something really creative - but they're hopelessly focused on one platform."

PHP (for example) is able to make things simpler because it's 100% aimed at web pages, Gosling explained. Whereas with Java, he said, "We have a balancing act: we need the simplicity but we also need power."

He called Simplicity and Power "evil twin brothers" - "Building systems that have a lot of power just attracts complexity. Because of the way that the world has become so interconnected it helps to have systems where it carries over from one domain to another. You can do web presentation stuff really well in PHP but you couldn't write a library that does, say, interplanetary navigation."

On the other hand, any discussion about Java "versus" PHP or Ruby or any other language is in many ways moot, Gosling also stressed:

"We also tried to work with all these languages ,so that Java works with PHP and works with Python, so you can do the web presentation layer in PHP and the analytics in Java. Lots of people do that."

More Stories By Jeremy Geelan

Jeremy Geelan is Chairman & CEO of the 21st Century Internet Group, Inc. and an Executive Academy Member of the International Academy of Digital Arts & Sciences. Formerly he was President & COO at Cloud Expo, Inc. and Conference Chair of the worldwide Cloud Expo series. He appears regularly at conferences and trade shows, speaking to technology audiences across six continents. You can follow him on twitter: @jg21.

Comments (18) View Comments

Share your thoughts on this story.

Add your comment
You must be signed in to add a comment. Sign-in | Register

In accordance with our Comment Policy, we encourage comments that are on topic, relevant and to-the-point. We will remove comments that include profanity, personal attacks, racial slurs, threats of violence, or other inappropriate material that violates our Terms and Conditions, and will block users who make repeated violations. We ask all readers to expect diversity of opinion and to treat one another with dignity and respect.


Most Recent Comments
jrsprice 09/16/09 03:28:00 PM EDT

First off, this article compares Java technology with SSI technology like php which is a server side scripting language. "Hypertext pre-processor". This article is useless in the way it's comparing these technologies. I know James Gosling said "Java is under no serious threat from php, ruby or c#" however technology changes so fast or he spoke to soon since I believe flash actionscript3(oop) has a lot of competition with java. I also agree with another comment that yes Java is SLOW... Every java applet I've encountered has some lag issue where as flash tends to perform better. Flash also can contain the most elegant and dynamic GUI's without running slow(java).

Every technology serves its own purpose. It's diverse.

John 07/09/07 03:55:34 PM EDT

Programming language comparison is not always meaningless. For example, for most programmers Java is a better language than VBScript. Here is our migration path in the past few years:

- ASP + COM objects (the dark age)
- Java (abandoned in favor of C#)
- C# (purely a enterprise decision)
- Ruby

As a language, Ruby in general can produce better products with less code, and is easier to maintain. It is also easier to achieve good OO design with Ruby.

Another way of looking at this is: C++ is a failed attempt to tag OO onto C language, and Java improves upon C++ by cleaning up the mess. From this perspective, you can see why there are other languages out there that are better than Java.

nobody 03/19/06 03:05:04 PM EST

"Many, many developers are moving to .Net and C#...."

"...Especially since C# has severely erroded Java's control of the enterprise..."

"...The basic facts of Java are:
good points
1. Easy to use
2. Useful in RTC
3. Loved by Corporate people who like the idea of cross platform idea, but this itself is just like anyother language.
4. Good set of library functions.

Bad points
1. Memory hog
2. Slow Slow Slow
3. Overkill for most functions and applications
4. Over rated
..."

A lot of FUD against Java is everywhere. But I can't believe all your anti-Java arguments until you give facts, studies, or proof.

Pratik Naik 03/16/06 09:05:05 AM EST

I guess your mistook ruby to be a stone instead of a programming language.

Leigh 03/13/06 07:12:38 PM EST

I use Ruby all the time and am not working on web pages. The main difference between Ruby and Java, is that I can't do lots of things in Java without taking on 10 different frameworks. Also Java has this, if its easy its bad attitude - it was only when c# came along they even started adding the most basic Syntactic sugar - but it still has a long way to go to get near Ruby or Python.

Simen 03/13/06 06:51:19 PM EST

You're confusing Rails with Ruby, and that alone shows that you've never really given it a real chance.

The Cherbin 03/13/06 01:21:35 PM EST

Joe Average ???
"They don't do computational 3D, they don't do complex numerics, they don't do Gui design..."

Computational 3D ? whatever? PHP does too. GUI design shouldnt be done with Java for sure. Its a complete memory hog, just look at the java GUI builders. they're written in java and they drag a machine to a halt.

Even Xforms will blow the hell out of some Java GUI.

This is about the worst written article and viewpoint I've ever read.

Give me one reason that PHP is just good for Web Programs.. Just shows these peoples ignorance, no wonder they're using java for all these applications.

One thing is I cant believe Colleges are given credit for taken a Java class, thats like given credit for Basic. Even Pascal and Kylix are much more valuable than Java.

Java's Thread Manager - if you can call it a thread manager - is just some fake piece of code pretending to be a thread manager. Just do a truss on it and you'll see NO threads. What you'll see is a bunch of unicode conversion calls.

ASP is a piece of garbage, and basically a 40 book 40 language marketing scheme rallied on by a bunch of happy go lucky programmers.

Brandon Tyler 03/13/06 12:36:40 PM EST

Be careful thought. Many, many developers are moving to .Net and C#. I love it. The development environment is excellent. Although Eclipse is very nice too. ASP.NET 2.0 totally kicks PHP in the booty though.

Joe Average 03/13/06 10:31:32 AM EST

I think Gosling is right on the money...

The simple fact of the matter is that php and ruby are very weak compared to other languages in terms of platforms (embedded and non), libraries, and functionality... In the regard of patterns: PHP and Ruby are perfect MVC pattern implementors... Which only can fit well in one place... The Web.

They don't do computational 3D, they don't do complex numerics, they don't do Gui design...

They plain suck for ANYthing outside of "web" junk....

The Cherbin 03/12/06 07:43:32 PM EST

JAMES GROSLING GET WITH IT !

Java is basically only useful for RTC applications. It has been just dragged on and on as an acceptable language to use for any application you want becuase a CSI major can pick up easily. Its not any more portable than C, PHP, Basic, Perl, COBOL.

Once again, you can read my comments below, but after thinking about what this guy said in the article, just goes to show how computer science is taken lightly, and how the Mean population of Computer Programmers can consider such an article even worthy of print.

Ruby and C# ? who in their right mind would even use such a language, thats like using asp for webpages.

The Cherbin

Infernoz 03/12/06 12:27:50 AM EST

I think that James Gosling is talking out of his backside, C# maybe only on Windows, but he forgets that most laptops, desktops, servers run Windows!
Sun need to get very serious about Java, force those JCP lagards to make product, so that this, very late, critical stuff and important recent stuff can be put into Mustang and not leave for a very late Dolphin. I'm quite annoyed at how much stuff got left out of 1.3 and 1.4 because people sat on their hands way too much! Companies can have very long development cycles and developers like me can get quite frustrated at the lack of facilities because to facilites got massively delayed to 'risky' new java versions! I've even stated to backport some stuff, which should have been available as optional extra jars!

Paul Barry's Technology Blog 03/10/06 09:49:08 PM EST

Trackback Added: Ruby is just for generating web pages; In a recent Java talk, James Gosling said: “PHP and Ruby are perfectly fine systems,” he continued, “but they are scripting languages and get their power through specialization: they just generate web pages.”
I find this to be a...

Zé colméia 03/10/06 08:54:11 PM EST

Aff Maria, esse tio tá ficando senil.
O povo está percebendo que existem coisas melhores que o Java e o desespero começa a bater no pai da criança.

Paul 03/10/06 03:46:36 PM EST

I have huge respect for James Gosling, but I think in this particular article the most important quote is this one:

"Any discussion about Java versus PHP or Ruby or any other language is in many ways moot anyway, Gosling also stressed."

Developers will write in whatever language they write in. It'll either work well for them or it won't. What's the point of "my language is bigger than your language" debates?

jman 03/10/06 02:50:20 PM EST

Even as a Java programmer, I must say that this sounds like a rather arrogant story. Especially since C# has severely erroded Java's control of the enterprise and Ruby, Perl, Python, and PHP dominate small to mid-size projects. Gosling also failed to mention the Mono project, which ports C# to non-Windows platforms. I'm not a C# fan, but thought it was only fair to mention that.

But, who knows. Maybe the companies and developers switching from Java will agree with Gosling and return Java to its former glory. I'm not going to count on it though.

The Cherbin 03/10/06 01:25:52 PM EST

Java has been way over rated for the last couple of years. Even Java threads are a pitiful attempt to make it seem like a real working language.

Other points involving PHP/Perl
1. PHP is not just a WEB language as most people just love to use it just for WEB programs.
2. PHP is much faster than JAVA and can replace C or any shell scripting language on a command line interface.
3. PHP has a bad weakness which is NO threads

C# is a 40/40 programming language, meaning that 40 books are sold covering the same topic in 40 languages for a money profit.

The basic facts of Java are
good points
1. Easy to use
2. Useful in RTC
3. Loved by Corporate people who like the idea of cross platform idea, but this itself is just like anyother language.
4. Good set of library functions.

Bad points
1. Memory hog
2. Slow Slow Slow
3. Overkill for most functions and applications
4. Over rated

news desk 03/09/06 09:20:34 PM EST

'There have been a number of language coming up lately,' noted James Gosling today at Sun's World Wide Education & Research Conference in New York City. 'PHP and Ruby are perfectly fine systems but they are scripting languages and get their power through specialization: they just generate web pages. But none of them attempt any serious breadth in the application domain and they both have really serious scaling and performance problems.' He then dismissed C# as having had potential, but no longer: 'We were afraid [Microsoft] were going to do something really creative - but they're hopelessly focused on one platform.'

NameGame 03/09/06 06:41:52 PM EST

Is it true that the reason Java was originally called the "Oak Project" was because of the oak trees outside James Gosling's office at Sun? Can anyone confirm/deny?

@ThingsExpo Stories
Code Halos - aka "digital fingerprints" - are the key organizing principle to understand a) how dumb things become smart and b) how to monetize this dynamic. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Robert Brown, AVP, Center for the Future of Work at Cognizant Technology Solutions, outlined research, analysis and recommendations from his recently published book on this phenomena on the way leading edge organizations like GE and Disney are unlocking the Internet of Things opportunity and what steps your organization should be taking to position itself for the next platform of digital competition.
The Industrial Internet revolution is now underway, enabled by connected machines and billions of devices that communicate and collaborate. The massive amounts of Big Data requiring real-time analysis is flooding legacy IT systems and giving way to cloud environments that can handle the unpredictable workloads. Yet many barriers remain until we can fully realize the opportunities and benefits from the convergence of machines and devices with Big Data and the cloud, including interoperability, data security and privacy.
In their session at @ThingsExpo, Shyam Varan Nath, Principal Architect at GE, and Ibrahim Gokcen, who leads GE's advanced IoT analytics, focused on the Internet of Things / Industrial Internet and how to make it operational for business end-users. Learn about the challenges posed by machine and sensor data and how to marry it with enterprise data. They also discussed the tips and tricks to provide the Industrial Internet as an end-user consumable service using Big Data Analytics and Industrial Cloud.
SYS-CON Media announced that Splunk, a provider of the leading software platform for real-time Operational Intelligence, has launched an ad campaign on Big Data Journal. Splunk software and cloud services enable organizations to search, monitor, analyze and visualize machine-generated big data coming from websites, applications, servers, networks, sensors and mobile devices. The ads focus on delivering ROI - how improved uptime delivered $6M in annual ROI, improving customer operations by mining large volumes of unstructured data, and how data tracking delivers uptime when it matters most.
Today’s enterprise is being driven by disruptive competitive and human capital requirements to provide enterprise application access through not only desktops, but also mobile devices. To retrofit existing programs across all these devices using traditional programming methods is very costly and time consuming – often prohibitively so. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Jesse Shiah, CEO, President, and Co-Founder of AgilePoint Inc., discussed how you can create applications that run on all mobile devices as well as laptops and desktops using a visual drag-and-drop application – and eForms-buildi...
Things are being built upon cloud foundations to transform organizations. This CEO Power Panel at 15th Cloud Expo, moderated by Roger Strukhoff, Cloud Expo and @ThingsExpo conference chair, addressed the big issues involving these technologies and, more important, the results they will achieve. Rodney Rogers, chairman and CEO of Virtustream; Brendan O'Brien, co-founder of Aria Systems, Bart Copeland, president and CEO of ActiveState Software; Jim Cowie, chief scientist at Dyn; Dave Wagstaff, VP and chief architect at BSQUARE Corporation; Seth Proctor, CTO of NuoDB, Inc.; and Andris Gailitis, C...
SYS-CON Events announced today that CodeFutures, a leading supplier of database performance tools, has been named a “Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 16th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 9–11, 2015, at the Javits Center in New York, NY. CodeFutures is an independent software vendor focused on providing tools that deliver database performance tools that increase productivity during database development and increase database performance and scalability during production.
SYS-CON Events announced today that ActiveState, the leading independent Cloud Foundry and Docker-based PaaS provider, has been named “Silver Sponsor” of SYS-CON's DevOps Summit New York, which will take place June 9-11, 2015, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. ActiveState believes that enterprises gain a competitive advantage when they are able to quickly create, deploy and efficiently manage software solutions that immediately create business value, but they face many challenges that prevent them from doing so. The Company is uniquely positioned to help address these challenges thro...
IoT is still a vague buzzword for many people. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Mike Kavis, Vice President & Principal Cloud Architect at Cloud Technology Partners, discussed the business value of IoT that goes far beyond the general public's perception that IoT is all about wearables and home consumer services. He also discussed how IoT is perceived by investors and how venture capitalist access this space. Other topics discussed were barriers to success, what is new, what is old, and what the future may hold. Mike Kavis is Vice President & Principal Cloud Architect at Cloud Technology Pa...
Dale Kim is the Director of Industry Solutions at MapR. His background includes a variety of technical and management roles at information technology companies. While his experience includes work with relational databases, much of his career pertains to non-relational data in the areas of search, content management, and NoSQL, and includes senior roles in technical marketing, sales engineering, and support engineering. Dale holds an MBA from Santa Clara University, and a BA in Computer Science from the University of California, Berkeley.
SYS-CON Media announced that Cisco, a worldwide leader in IT that helps companies seize the opportunities of tomorrow, has launched a new ad campaign in Cloud Computing Journal. The ad campaign, a webcast titled 'Is Your Data Center Ready for the Application Economy?', focuses on the latest data center networking technologies, including SDN or ACI, and how customers are using SDN and ACI in their organizations to achieve business agility. The Cisco webcast is available on-demand.
The Internet of Things (IoT) promises to evolve the way the world does business; however, understanding how to apply it to your company can be a mystery. Most people struggle with understanding the potential business uses or tend to get caught up in the technology, resulting in solutions that fail to meet even minimum business goals. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Jesse Shiah, CEO / President / Co-Founder of AgilePoint Inc., showed what is needed to leverage the IoT to transform your business. He discussed opportunities and challenges ahead for the IoT from a market and technical point of vie...
"People are a lot more knowledgeable about APIs now. There are two types of people who work with APIs - IT people who want to use APIs for something internal and the product managers who want to do something outside APIs for people to connect to them," explained Roberto Medrano, Executive Vice President at SOA Software, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at Cloud Expo, held Nov 4–6, 2014, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA.
Performance is the intersection of power, agility, control, and choice. If you value performance, and more specifically consistent performance, you need to look beyond simple virtualized compute. Many factors need to be considered to create a truly performant environment. In his General Session at 15th Cloud Expo, Harold Hannon, Sr. Software Architect at SoftLayer, discussed how to take advantage of a multitude of compute options and platform features to make cloud the cornerstone of your online presence.
In this Women in Technology Power Panel at 15th Cloud Expo, moderated by Anne Plese, Senior Consultant, Cloud Product Marketing at Verizon Enterprise, Esmeralda Swartz, CMO at MetraTech; Evelyn de Souza, Data Privacy and Compliance Strategy Leader at Cisco Systems; Seema Jethani, Director of Product Management at Basho Technologies; Victoria Livschitz, CEO of Qubell Inc.; Anne Hungate, Senior Director of Software Quality at DIRECTV, discussed what path they took to find their spot within the technology industry and how do they see opportunities for other women in their area of expertise.
Almost everyone sees the potential of Internet of Things but how can businesses truly unlock that potential. The key will be in the ability to discover business insight in the midst of an ocean of Big Data generated from billions of embedded devices via Systems of Discover. Businesses will also need to ensure that they can sustain that insight by leveraging the cloud for global reach, scale and elasticity.
“The age of the Internet of Things is upon us,” stated Thomas Svensson, senior vice-president and general manager EMEA, ThingWorx, “and working with forward-thinking companies, such as Elisa, enables us to deploy our leading technology so that customers can profit from complete, end-to-end solutions.” ThingWorx, a PTC® (Nasdaq: PTC) business and Internet of Things (IoT) platform provider, announced on Monday that Elisa, Finnish provider of mobile and fixed broadband subscriptions, will deploy ThingWorx® platform technology to enable a new Elisa IoT service in Finland and Estonia.
Advanced Persistent Threats (APTs) are increasing at an unprecedented rate. The threat landscape of today is drastically different than just a few years ago. Attacks are much more organized and sophisticated. They are harder to detect and even harder to anticipate. In the foreseeable future it's going to get a whole lot harder. Everything you know today will change. Keeping up with this changing landscape is already a daunting task. Your organization needs to use the latest tools, methods and expertise to guard against those threats. But will that be enough? In the foreseeable future attacks w...
As enterprises move to all-IP networks and cloud-based applications, communications service providers (CSPs) – facing increased competition from over-the-top providers delivering content via the Internet and independently of CSPs – must be able to offer seamless cloud-based communication and collaboration solutions that can scale for small, midsize, and large enterprises, as well as public sector organizations, in order to keep and grow market share. The latest version of Oracle Communications Unified Communications Suite gives CSPs the capability to do just that. In addition, its integration ...
From telemedicine to smart cars, digital homes and industrial monitoring, the explosive growth of IoT has created exciting new business opportunities for real time calls and messaging. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Ivelin Ivanov, CEO and Co-Founder of Telestax, shared some of the new revenue sources that IoT created for Restcomm – the open source telephony platform from Telestax. Ivelin Ivanov is a technology entrepreneur who founded Mobicents, an Open Source VoIP Platform, to help create, deploy, and manage applications integrating voice, video and data. He is the co-founder of TeleStax, a...