Welcome!

Java IoT Authors: Greg O'Connor, Sematext Blog, Pat Romanski, Craig Lowell, Liz McMillan

Related Topics: Java IoT

Java IoT: Article

James Gosling: "Java Is Under No Serious Threat From PHP, Ruby or C#"

Father of Java Reminds New York Audience That Java Works With All Languages

(March 9, 2006) - "There have been a number of language coming up lately," noted James Gosling today at Sun's World Wide Education & Research Conference in New York City when asked if Java was in any kind of danger from the newcomers. "PHP and Ruby are perfectly fine systems," he continued, "but they are scripting languages and get their power through specialization: they just generate web pages. But none of them attempt any serious breadth in the application domain and they both have really serious scaling and performance problems."

The Father of Java then dismissed Microsoft's C# as having had potential, but no longer: "We were afraid they were going to do something really creative - but they're hopelessly focused on one platform."

PHP (for example) is able to make things simpler because it's 100% aimed at web pages, Gosling explained. Whereas with Java, he said, "We have a balancing act: we need the simplicity but we also need power."

He called Simplicity and Power "evil twin brothers" - "Building systems that have a lot of power just attracts complexity. Because of the way that the world has become so interconnected it helps to have systems where it carries over from one domain to another. You can do web presentation stuff really well in PHP but you couldn't write a library that does, say, interplanetary navigation."

On the other hand, any discussion about Java "versus" PHP or Ruby or any other language is in many ways moot, Gosling also stressed:

"We also tried to work with all these languages ,so that Java works with PHP and works with Python, so you can do the web presentation layer in PHP and the analytics in Java. Lots of people do that."

More Stories By Jeremy Geelan

Jeremy Geelan is Chairman & CEO of the 21st Century Internet Group, Inc. and an Executive Academy Member of the International Academy of Digital Arts & Sciences. Formerly he was President & COO at Cloud Expo, Inc. and Conference Chair of the worldwide Cloud Expo series. He appears regularly at conferences and trade shows, speaking to technology audiences across six continents. You can follow him on twitter: @jg21.

Comments (18) View Comments

Share your thoughts on this story.

Add your comment
You must be signed in to add a comment. Sign-in | Register

In accordance with our Comment Policy, we encourage comments that are on topic, relevant and to-the-point. We will remove comments that include profanity, personal attacks, racial slurs, threats of violence, or other inappropriate material that violates our Terms and Conditions, and will block users who make repeated violations. We ask all readers to expect diversity of opinion and to treat one another with dignity and respect.


Most Recent Comments
jrsprice 09/16/09 03:28:00 PM EDT

First off, this article compares Java technology with SSI technology like php which is a server side scripting language. "Hypertext pre-processor". This article is useless in the way it's comparing these technologies. I know James Gosling said "Java is under no serious threat from php, ruby or c#" however technology changes so fast or he spoke to soon since I believe flash actionscript3(oop) has a lot of competition with java. I also agree with another comment that yes Java is SLOW... Every java applet I've encountered has some lag issue where as flash tends to perform better. Flash also can contain the most elegant and dynamic GUI's without running slow(java).

Every technology serves its own purpose. It's diverse.

John 07/09/07 03:55:34 PM EDT

Programming language comparison is not always meaningless. For example, for most programmers Java is a better language than VBScript. Here is our migration path in the past few years:

- ASP + COM objects (the dark age)
- Java (abandoned in favor of C#)
- C# (purely a enterprise decision)
- Ruby

As a language, Ruby in general can produce better products with less code, and is easier to maintain. It is also easier to achieve good OO design with Ruby.

Another way of looking at this is: C++ is a failed attempt to tag OO onto C language, and Java improves upon C++ by cleaning up the mess. From this perspective, you can see why there are other languages out there that are better than Java.

nobody 03/19/06 03:05:04 PM EST

"Many, many developers are moving to .Net and C#...."

"...Especially since C# has severely erroded Java's control of the enterprise..."

"...The basic facts of Java are:
good points
1. Easy to use
2. Useful in RTC
3. Loved by Corporate people who like the idea of cross platform idea, but this itself is just like anyother language.
4. Good set of library functions.

Bad points
1. Memory hog
2. Slow Slow Slow
3. Overkill for most functions and applications
4. Over rated
..."

A lot of FUD against Java is everywhere. But I can't believe all your anti-Java arguments until you give facts, studies, or proof.

Pratik Naik 03/16/06 09:05:05 AM EST

I guess your mistook ruby to be a stone instead of a programming language.

Leigh 03/13/06 07:12:38 PM EST

I use Ruby all the time and am not working on web pages. The main difference between Ruby and Java, is that I can't do lots of things in Java without taking on 10 different frameworks. Also Java has this, if its easy its bad attitude - it was only when c# came along they even started adding the most basic Syntactic sugar - but it still has a long way to go to get near Ruby or Python.

Simen 03/13/06 06:51:19 PM EST

You're confusing Rails with Ruby, and that alone shows that you've never really given it a real chance.

The Cherbin 03/13/06 01:21:35 PM EST

Joe Average ???
"They don't do computational 3D, they don't do complex numerics, they don't do Gui design..."

Computational 3D ? whatever? PHP does too. GUI design shouldnt be done with Java for sure. Its a complete memory hog, just look at the java GUI builders. they're written in java and they drag a machine to a halt.

Even Xforms will blow the hell out of some Java GUI.

This is about the worst written article and viewpoint I've ever read.

Give me one reason that PHP is just good for Web Programs.. Just shows these peoples ignorance, no wonder they're using java for all these applications.

One thing is I cant believe Colleges are given credit for taken a Java class, thats like given credit for Basic. Even Pascal and Kylix are much more valuable than Java.

Java's Thread Manager - if you can call it a thread manager - is just some fake piece of code pretending to be a thread manager. Just do a truss on it and you'll see NO threads. What you'll see is a bunch of unicode conversion calls.

ASP is a piece of garbage, and basically a 40 book 40 language marketing scheme rallied on by a bunch of happy go lucky programmers.

Brandon Tyler 03/13/06 12:36:40 PM EST

Be careful thought. Many, many developers are moving to .Net and C#. I love it. The development environment is excellent. Although Eclipse is very nice too. ASP.NET 2.0 totally kicks PHP in the booty though.

Joe Average 03/13/06 10:31:32 AM EST

I think Gosling is right on the money...

The simple fact of the matter is that php and ruby are very weak compared to other languages in terms of platforms (embedded and non), libraries, and functionality... In the regard of patterns: PHP and Ruby are perfect MVC pattern implementors... Which only can fit well in one place... The Web.

They don't do computational 3D, they don't do complex numerics, they don't do Gui design...

They plain suck for ANYthing outside of "web" junk....

The Cherbin 03/12/06 07:43:32 PM EST

JAMES GROSLING GET WITH IT !

Java is basically only useful for RTC applications. It has been just dragged on and on as an acceptable language to use for any application you want becuase a CSI major can pick up easily. Its not any more portable than C, PHP, Basic, Perl, COBOL.

Once again, you can read my comments below, but after thinking about what this guy said in the article, just goes to show how computer science is taken lightly, and how the Mean population of Computer Programmers can consider such an article even worthy of print.

Ruby and C# ? who in their right mind would even use such a language, thats like using asp for webpages.

The Cherbin

Infernoz 03/12/06 12:27:50 AM EST

I think that James Gosling is talking out of his backside, C# maybe only on Windows, but he forgets that most laptops, desktops, servers run Windows!
Sun need to get very serious about Java, force those JCP lagards to make product, so that this, very late, critical stuff and important recent stuff can be put into Mustang and not leave for a very late Dolphin. I'm quite annoyed at how much stuff got left out of 1.3 and 1.4 because people sat on their hands way too much! Companies can have very long development cycles and developers like me can get quite frustrated at the lack of facilities because to facilites got massively delayed to 'risky' new java versions! I've even stated to backport some stuff, which should have been available as optional extra jars!

Paul Barry's Technology Blog 03/10/06 09:49:08 PM EST

Trackback Added: Ruby is just for generating web pages; In a recent Java talk, James Gosling said: “PHP and Ruby are perfectly fine systems,” he continued, “but they are scripting languages and get their power through specialization: they just generate web pages.”
I find this to be a...

Zé colméia 03/10/06 08:54:11 PM EST

Aff Maria, esse tio tá ficando senil.
O povo está percebendo que existem coisas melhores que o Java e o desespero começa a bater no pai da criança.

Paul 03/10/06 03:46:36 PM EST

I have huge respect for James Gosling, but I think in this particular article the most important quote is this one:

"Any discussion about Java versus PHP or Ruby or any other language is in many ways moot anyway, Gosling also stressed."

Developers will write in whatever language they write in. It'll either work well for them or it won't. What's the point of "my language is bigger than your language" debates?

jman 03/10/06 02:50:20 PM EST

Even as a Java programmer, I must say that this sounds like a rather arrogant story. Especially since C# has severely erroded Java's control of the enterprise and Ruby, Perl, Python, and PHP dominate small to mid-size projects. Gosling also failed to mention the Mono project, which ports C# to non-Windows platforms. I'm not a C# fan, but thought it was only fair to mention that.

But, who knows. Maybe the companies and developers switching from Java will agree with Gosling and return Java to its former glory. I'm not going to count on it though.

The Cherbin 03/10/06 01:25:52 PM EST

Java has been way over rated for the last couple of years. Even Java threads are a pitiful attempt to make it seem like a real working language.

Other points involving PHP/Perl
1. PHP is not just a WEB language as most people just love to use it just for WEB programs.
2. PHP is much faster than JAVA and can replace C or any shell scripting language on a command line interface.
3. PHP has a bad weakness which is NO threads

C# is a 40/40 programming language, meaning that 40 books are sold covering the same topic in 40 languages for a money profit.

The basic facts of Java are
good points
1. Easy to use
2. Useful in RTC
3. Loved by Corporate people who like the idea of cross platform idea, but this itself is just like anyother language.
4. Good set of library functions.

Bad points
1. Memory hog
2. Slow Slow Slow
3. Overkill for most functions and applications
4. Over rated

news desk 03/09/06 09:20:34 PM EST

'There have been a number of language coming up lately,' noted James Gosling today at Sun's World Wide Education & Research Conference in New York City. 'PHP and Ruby are perfectly fine systems but they are scripting languages and get their power through specialization: they just generate web pages. But none of them attempt any serious breadth in the application domain and they both have really serious scaling and performance problems.' He then dismissed C# as having had potential, but no longer: 'We were afraid [Microsoft] were going to do something really creative - but they're hopelessly focused on one platform.'

NameGame 03/09/06 06:41:52 PM EST

Is it true that the reason Java was originally called the "Oak Project" was because of the oak trees outside James Gosling's office at Sun? Can anyone confirm/deny?

@ThingsExpo Stories
Smart Cities are here to stay, but for their promise to be delivered, the data they produce must not be put in new siloes. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Mathias Herberts, Co-founder and CTO of Cityzen Data, will deep dive into best practices that will ensure a successful smart city journey.
Why do your mobile transformations need to happen today? Mobile is the strategy that enterprise transformation centers on to drive customer engagement. In his general session at @ThingsExpo, Roger Woods, Director, Mobile Product & Strategy – Adobe Marketing Cloud, covered key IoT and mobile trends that are forcing mobile transformation, key components of a solid mobile strategy and explored how brands are effectively driving mobile change throughout the enterprise.
DevOps at Cloud Expo, taking place Nov 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, is co-located with 19th Cloud Expo and will feature technical sessions from a rock star conference faculty and the leading industry players in the world. The widespread success of cloud computing is driving the DevOps revolution in enterprise IT. Now as never before, development teams must communicate and collaborate in a dynamic, 24/7/365 environment. There is no time to wait for long dev...
Identity is in everything and customers are looking to their providers to ensure the security of their identities, transactions and data. With the increased reliance on cloud-based services, service providers must build security and trust into their offerings, adding value to customers and improving the user experience. Making identity, security and privacy easy for customers provides a unique advantage over the competition.
SYS-CON Events announced today that 910Telecom will exhibit at the 19th International Cloud Expo, which will take place on November 1–3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. Housed in the classic Denver Gas & Electric Building, 910 15th St., 910Telecom is a carrier-neutral telecom hotel located in the heart of Denver. Adjacent to CenturyLink, AT&T, and Denver Main, 910Telecom offers connectivity to all major carriers, Internet service providers, Internet backbones and ...
Almost two-thirds of companies either have or soon will have IoT as the backbone of their business in 2016. However, IoT is far more complex than most firms expected. How can you not get trapped in the pitfalls? In his session at @ThingsExpo, Tony Shan, a renowned visionary and thought leader, will introduce a holistic method of IoTification, which is the process of IoTifying the existing technology and business models to adopt and leverage IoT. He will drill down to the components in this fra...
Internet of @ThingsExpo, taking place November 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, is co-located with 19th Cloud Expo and will feature technical sessions from a rock star conference faculty and the leading industry players in the world. The Internet of Things (IoT) is the most profound change in personal and enterprise IT since the creation of the Worldwide Web more than 20 years ago. All major researchers estimate there will be tens of billions devices - comp...
Data is the fuel that drives the machine learning algorithmic engines and ultimately provides the business value. In his session at Cloud Expo, Ed Featherston, a director and senior enterprise architect at Collaborative Consulting, will discuss the key considerations around quality, volume, timeliness, and pedigree that must be dealt with in order to properly fuel that engine.
There is growing need for data-driven applications and the need for digital platforms to build these apps. In his session at 19th Cloud Expo, Muddu Sudhakar, VP and GM of Security & IoT at Splunk, will cover different PaaS solutions and Big Data platforms that are available to build applications. In addition, AI and machine learning are creating new requirements that developers need in the building of next-gen apps. The next-generation digital platforms have some of the past platform needs a...
19th Cloud Expo, taking place November 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, will feature technical sessions from a rock star conference faculty and the leading industry players in the world. Cloud computing is now being embraced by a majority of enterprises of all sizes. Yesterday's debate about public vs. private has transformed into the reality of hybrid cloud: a recent survey shows that 74% of enterprises have a hybrid cloud strategy. Meanwhile, 94% of enterpri...
SYS-CON Events announced today Telecom Reseller has been named “Media Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 19th International Cloud Expo, which will take place on November 1–3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. Telecom Reseller reports on Unified Communications, UCaaS, BPaaS for enterprise and SMBs. They report extensively on both customer premises based solutions such as IP-PBX as well as cloud based and hosted platforms.
Pulzze Systems was happy to participate in such a premier event and thankful to be receiving the winning investment and global network support from G-Startup Worldwide. It is an exciting time for Pulzze to showcase the effectiveness of innovative technologies and enable them to make the world smarter and better. The reputable contest is held to identify promising startups around the globe that are assured to change the world through their innovative products and disruptive technologies. There w...
With so much going on in this space you could be forgiven for thinking you were always working with yesterday’s technologies. So much change, so quickly. What do you do if you have to build a solution from the ground up that is expected to live in the field for at least 5-10 years? This is the challenge we faced when we looked to refresh our existing 10-year-old custom hardware stack to measure the fullness of trash cans and compactors.
The emerging Internet of Everything creates tremendous new opportunities for customer engagement and business model innovation. However, enterprises must overcome a number of critical challenges to bring these new solutions to market. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Michael Martin, CTO/CIO at nfrastructure, outlined these key challenges and recommended approaches for overcoming them to achieve speed and agility in the design, development and implementation of Internet of Everything solutions wi...
Cloud computing is being adopted in one form or another by 94% of enterprises today. Tens of billions of new devices are being connected to The Internet of Things. And Big Data is driving this bus. An exponential increase is expected in the amount of information being processed, managed, analyzed, and acted upon by enterprise IT. This amazing is not part of some distant future - it is happening today. One report shows a 650% increase in enterprise data by 2020. Other estimates are even higher....
Today we can collect lots and lots of performance data. We build beautiful dashboards and even have fancy query languages to access and transform the data. Still performance data is a secret language only a couple of people understand. The more business becomes digital the more stakeholders are interested in this data including how it relates to business. Some of these people have never used a monitoring tool before. They have a question on their mind like “How is my application doing” but no id...
The 19th International Cloud Expo has announced that its Call for Papers is open. Cloud Expo, to be held November 1-3, 2016, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA, brings together Cloud Computing, Big Data, Internet of Things, DevOps, Digital Transformation, Microservices and WebRTC to one location. With cloud computing driving a higher percentage of enterprise IT budgets every year, it becomes increasingly important to plant your flag in this fast-expanding business opportuni...
I wanted to gather all of my Internet of Things (IOT) blogs into a single blog (that I could later use with my University of San Francisco (USF) Big Data “MBA” course). However as I started to pull these blogs together, I realized that my IOT discussion lacked a vision; it lacked an end point towards which an organization could drive their IOT envisioning, proof of value, app dev, data engineering and data science efforts. And I think that the IOT end point is really quite simple…
Personalization has long been the holy grail of marketing. Simply stated, communicate the most relevant offer to the right person and you will increase sales. To achieve this, you must understand the individual. Consequently, digital marketers developed many ways to gather and leverage customer information to deliver targeted experiences. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Lou Casal, Founder and Principal Consultant at Practicala, discussed how the Internet of Things (IoT) has accelerated our abil...
Is the ongoing quest for agility in the data center forcing you to evaluate how to be a part of infrastructure automation efforts? As organizations evolve toward bimodal IT operations, they are embracing new service delivery models and leveraging virtualization to increase infrastructure agility. Therefore, the network must evolve in parallel to become equally agile. Read this essential piece of Gartner research for recommendations on achieving greater agility.