|By Brandon Harper||
|February 9, 2007 01:45 PM EST||
Not to directly pick on Peter Bell at all (he’s a very smart guy and I really enjoy his blog, so this is nothing personal at all), I just noticed something he mentioned in a recent comment on a blog entry and felt that it was something I should address in a blog post rather than a comment. Also, writing this entry gives me a good reference point later to send to people when they present the same talking point to me.
Anyhow, here is the comment that Peter made which inspired this blog entry (which in context, is a quip):
"I also have to question why you’d even consider using CF for a performance critical app - even Java is a little sluggish. If you want bare metal performance and think your time is worth less than the cost of a server, go for it and write the darn app in C++!"
I wanted to point out and correct a common fallacy that I see repeated over and over again are statements rooted in comments like “If you need speed, you could convert your Java application to C or C++”. I don’t claim to be a Java expert by any means, but I do think I have a good enough understanding of the Java platform as well as basic operating systems and compiler theory and the like to explain why this is a false argument. The answer is actually more along the lines of “it depends on what you are doing”, and I’ll explain why.
It’s very easy to see where this misconception started – pretty much every software developer or system administrator has encountered a slow Swing/AWT based Java application which took forever to start, and generally seemed pretty sluggish. Not to mention it probably looked terrible. One of the best Java based desktop applications, Eclipse, even takes awhile to start. On the contrary, C++ desktop applications typically start very quickly, and are very responsive to user input. Generally speaking the symptoms of running a Java desktop application match the reality– C++ is almost always faster for short running programs such as desktop applications.
Another common assumption is that it would seem that the JVM itself is an abstraction above machine level code because it acts as an interpreter, and that C/C++ will always be faster because the resulting compiled code is “closer to the hardware” which is also false. In the early days of Java, the JVM did in fact interpret code, but eventually it started using a Just In Time compiler in Java 1.2 to compile the code down to the machine level. Different implementations of the JVM use various JIT compilers, but the Sun JVM uses the HotSpot JIT. Not only are Java programs compiled down to machine specific code, but the longer a program runs, the better it gets optimized.
The HotSpot compiler monitors and analyzes an applications performance over time, and uses adaptive optimization to eliminate bottlenecks in the machine code, known as “hotspots”. It essentially looks for pieces of code that are ran time and time again, and marks them for optimization. Those pieces of code are then recompiled again into machine specific code for performance. This allows for ongoing performance enhancements that you would never get from machine code produced by a C or C++ compiler such as branch prediction hints.
All of these things are not just unfounded theory, there have been several independent studies about this including this one by the University of Southern California.
Java is now nearly equal to (or faster than) C++ on low-level and numeric benchmarks. This should not be surprising: Java is a compiled language (albeit JIT compiled).
This study is several years old now and doesn’t include testing against the many performance enhancements which were made available in the 1.5 JVM, so I’d be interested in seeing an updated study.
That said, Java is probably much faster than you think. One way I’ve seen the Hotspot compiler in action (and you can try at home) is when working on a simple “Hello World” JSP and keeping track of it’s execution time. Typically on the initial run or two, the JSP page is pretty quick, but then after a few calls of the page the Hotspot compiler kicks in and makes it wicked fast so that it’s execution time is effectively nil.
Now that we’ve spoke to the “Java Is Slow” audience, we should cover the answer to the earlier question of “Is Java slower than C/C++?”. This is more of an “it depends” answer. Generally speaking C++ has the advantage in short running applications, and Java is as fast if not faster than C/C++ in long running applications such as servers, web applications, etc. It also might surprise you to know that Java is also very good in real time systems, but that is another blog post of its own.
|semiosys 02/28/07 10:10:10 AM EST|
Java can be slow or can be very fast; it all depends on the way you code.
Java is certainly great for both computing and GUI interaction, just have a look
Garbadge collection may be the difficult point to argue; but try Javolution (www.javolution.org) and
A happy java user.
|Marshall Caro 02/14/07 11:07:15 AM EST|
Let's try this again:
1. There are NO appreciable performance differences between programs written in Java and C#, and no practical performance differences with C++ and C.
Java and C# compilers produce meta-code which is subsequently recompiled by their respective runtime engines into machine instructions.
C and C++ (and Fortran and Cobol and Pascal and Algol and ...) compile directly to machine code (earlier compilers often produced assembly code which required post compilation processing).
The modern loaders and optimizers are so good now that there just isn't any performance penalty to speak of.
2. So why do apparently smart people still claim "Java is slow!"???
a. Appearances can be deceiving.
b. Your mileage may vary. Program performance is affected by software design and coding. And Java is purpose built to be machine and OS independent. So Java has an additional abstraction layer between it and the native OS for hardware related functions, most particularly screen output (but also I/O).
We build distributed Java applets and applications for the financial industry that perform MUCH better than our competition -- we can service tens of thousands of nodes across the internet in real-time.
When we started our current business most of our end users had Sun workstations. Now it's almost 100% windows. We haven't had to change a line of code to accomodate the changeover.
|Ski 02/14/07 10:44:50 AM EST|
Since everyone seems to be focused on the desktop (even though the initial article was broader than that), let me add a couple of comments. I just recently wrote a Java Desktop Application - a MP3 Music Jukebox and Manager. It uses a MySQL database to keep track of potentially 1,000,000+ mp3s, with the ability to easily query the database on a number of categories, and also gives you the ability to write raw SQL if needed. I also use a Java framework I wrote some time ago, which includes logging, event management, background threading, instrumentation, database management including pooling, and a dozen other services. The point of all this, is that through the instrumentation (which can be viewed in a browser since the instrumentation is MBean enabled), I can see ACTUAL performance. Startup time of the app, including rendering, averages about 1.2 seconds (and there are about a hundred Components in the app). Event processing is normally measured in the microseconds (e.g. half or less of a millisecond). I can plow through a 50,000 row MySQL database to retrieve songs in about 300 milliseconds. Having used Windows Media Player, and a number of other Jukebox apps, the Java implementation was no slower, and actually appeared faster. Perhaps some of the people complaining about the performance have not written their code in a manner which provides good performance.
|Andre van Westreenen 02/14/07 08:32:39 AM EST|
Pardon me, I have been coding since 1973, User interfaces are my cup of tea, Java is a pig when it comes to UI, I'd like to refer to the JVM as the JMV "Java Memory Vortex". To even claim that code compiled and linked as native code code be slower than some bloated runtime engine grinding along just to get a single widget change state, is akin to waxing lyrically about the emperor's new wardrobe. As a language it has it's place and that place excludes the desktop, I'll pitch any old 16 bit p-code up against Java for UI and will beat it hands down..
|James Chua 02/13/07 08:55:16 PM EST|
Nice blog there! Well explained, very informative and most of all you know what you are saying. I didn't know about the purpose of hotspot just till now that I've read your blog!
|Gerd 02/13/07 01:04:39 PM EST|
while I was aware of what you say about JIT compilation and the performance of my Java code vs. my C++ code, I am still faced with benchmarked throughput figures that differ by wide margins (in ESB type middleware code). Is it the overhead of all the J2EE APIs? If so, then it is the path length from my API call to the metal for these functions, not for single instruction execution.
So if I have CPU intensive calculations the difference would be negligible, but if I interact with the outside world I struggle with the layers of code in the VM? This would tie in with Marshall Caro's comment on screen output. But it can't be just that, because my "middleware" examples don't ever write to the screen.
BTW, I think it would be an excellent suggestion to store the compiled "executable" code for later reuse.
|Jeff Chapman 02/13/07 12:48:34 PM EST|
It's refreshing to see someone positively linking the words Java and execution speed.
Unfortunately, you've perpetuated the belief that Java desktop applications are inherently inferior. I've heard many a developer tell me that "Java on the desktop is a toy." If you ask these people a few questions, you will find that they use an IDE to code their mission-critical applications. You will also find that their cherished Java IDE is written in, that's correct, Java. So, these developers are using a toy to do their work.
The problem with Java on the desktop is not the JVM. Sun has made many efforts, which you have already identified, to improve performance. The problem is poorly coded Swing applications. The reason those desktop IDEs are so responsive is that they were written by developers who know what they're doing.
The key to creating a responsive Swing application is the proper use of threading in response to user actions. Without using threading, the code executed in response to a user action prevents the underlying graphics code from repainting the screen promptly. The correct approach is to put the code to execute into a runnable instance that will be executed later or concurrently in a separate thread. This allows the method invoked by a user action to return immediately. The Java Tutorial addresses this issue but it doesn't emphasize it in the examples given throughout the tutorial. Inexperienced developers will load up the methods in response to button and menu selections. The result will be an application that appears horribly sluggish and unresponsive.
|Ski 02/13/07 10:50:24 AM EST|
When talking about most web and business applications, 90% - 95% of the time is spent on non-execution of your code (e.g. database requests, network, file i/o, infrastructure, etc.). So if one language (environment) was even twice as fast as another, so are still talking about only 2.5% - 5% overall. So the better business decision is to write in the language that is easier to develop, maintain and debug.
|Marshall Caro 02/13/07 06:49:27 AM EST|
Actually, there is a large performance gap between C++ applications (and C#) -- vs Java apps. But the difference is in screen output -- Java applications go through a layer of abstraction (AWT) that native (Windows) C++ and C# programs do not.
|Stu Moss 02/13/07 06:23:46 AM EST|
I agree entirely once the app is running (or applet). However by far the biggest complaint we experience is not performance once an applet is started but the time it takes to start a sizeable applet (1Mb+). We have observed that most of the time is spent starting the JVM itself and then the initial compilation of an applet. It would be great if Sun engineers could work out a way to cache results of previously compiled and optmized applets (even after closing the JVM). Better still if we could get the JVM start-up times much lower.
|ferhad 02/13/07 04:32:59 AM EST|
Thanks.Really great article.Java may seem slow but we shouldn't forget the fact that none of the super fast applications written in C or C++ runs on all platforms without changing their codes.However, Java does this.It runs on all OS platforms like Windows, Linux, Mac.
|dugu 02/13/07 01:19:32 AM EST|
Great article.Specially I like the last part where you have compared with C++.Thanks
Your homes and cars can be automated and self-serviced. Why can't your storage? From simply asking questions to analyze and troubleshoot your infrastructure, to provisioning storage with snapshots, recovery and replication, your wildest sci-fi dream has come true. In his session at @DevOpsSummit at 20th Cloud Expo, Dan Florea, Director of Product Management at Tintri, will provide a ChatOps demo where you can talk to your storage and manage it from anywhere, through Slack and similar services ...
Mar. 28, 2017 07:00 PM EDT Reads: 4,436
In his session at @ThingsExpo, Eric Lachapelle, CEO of the Professional Evaluation and Certification Board (PECB), will provide an overview of various initiatives to certifiy the security of connected devices and future trends in ensuring public trust of IoT. Eric Lachapelle is the Chief Executive Officer of the Professional Evaluation and Certification Board (PECB), an international certification body. His role is to help companies and individuals to achieve professional, accredited and worldw...
Mar. 28, 2017 06:00 PM EDT Reads: 819
SYS-CON Events announced today that Linux Academy, the foremost online Linux and cloud training platform and community, will exhibit at SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. Linux Academy was founded on the belief that providing high-quality, in-depth training should be available at an affordable price. Industry leaders in quality training, provided services, and student certification passes, its goal is to c...
Mar. 28, 2017 03:45 PM EDT Reads: 4,097
"delaPlex is a software development company. We do team-based outsourcing development," explained Mark Rivers, COO and Co-founder of delaPlex Software, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at 18th Cloud Expo, held June 7-9, 2016, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY.
Mar. 28, 2017 03:00 PM EDT Reads: 9,602
SYS-CON Events announced today that SoftLayer, an IBM Company, has been named “Gold Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 18th Cloud Expo, which will take place on June 7-9, 2016, at the Javits Center in New York, New York. SoftLayer, an IBM Company, provides cloud infrastructure as a service from a growing number of data centers and network points of presence around the world. SoftLayer’s customers range from Web startups to global enterprises.
Mar. 28, 2017 03:00 PM EDT Reads: 2,082
SYS-CON Events announced today that CA Technologies has been named “Platinum Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY, and the 21st International Cloud Expo®, which will take place October 31-November 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clara, CA. CA Technologies helps customers succeed in a future where every business – from apparel to energy – is being rewritten by software. From ...
Mar. 28, 2017 02:15 PM EDT Reads: 2,174
SYS-CON Events announced today that Technologic Systems Inc., an embedded systems solutions company, will exhibit at SYS-CON's @ThingsExpo, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. Technologic Systems is an embedded systems company with headquarters in Fountain Hills, Arizona. They have been in business for 32 years, helping more than 8,000 OEM customers and building over a hundred COTS products that have never been discontinued. Technologic Systems’ pr...
Mar. 28, 2017 02:15 PM EDT Reads: 3,650
In his keynote at @ThingsExpo, Chris Matthieu, Director of IoT Engineering at Citrix and co-founder and CTO of Octoblu, focused on building an IoT platform and company. He provided a behind-the-scenes look at Octoblu’s platform, business, and pivots along the way (including the Citrix acquisition of Octoblu).
Mar. 28, 2017 02:00 PM EDT Reads: 14,245
SYS-CON Events announced today that Loom Systems will exhibit at SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. Founded in 2015, Loom Systems delivers an advanced AI solution to predict and prevent problems in the digital business. Loom stands alone in the industry as an AI analysis platform requiring no prior math knowledge from operators, leveraging the existing staff to succeed in the digital era. With offices in S...
Mar. 28, 2017 01:15 PM EDT Reads: 1,617
SYS-CON Events announced today that HTBase will exhibit at SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. HTBase (Gartner 2016 Cool Vendor) delivers a Composable IT infrastructure solution architected for agility and increased efficiency. It turns compute, storage, and fabric into fluid pools of resources that are easily composed and re-composed to meet each application’s needs. With HTBase, companies can quickly prov...
Mar. 28, 2017 12:45 PM EDT Reads: 3,134
SYS-CON Events announced today that T-Mobile will exhibit at SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. As America's Un-carrier, T-Mobile US, Inc., is redefining the way consumers and businesses buy wireless services through leading product and service innovation. The Company's advanced nationwide 4G LTE network delivers outstanding wireless experiences to 67.4 million customers who are unwilling to compromise on ...
Mar. 28, 2017 11:30 AM EDT Reads: 2,479
SYS-CON Events announced today that Cloud Academy will exhibit at SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. Cloud Academy is the industry’s most innovative, vendor-neutral cloud technology training platform. Cloud Academy provides continuous learning solutions for individuals and enterprise teams for Amazon Web Services, Microsoft Azure, Google Cloud Platform, and the most popular cloud computing technologies. Ge...
Mar. 28, 2017 11:30 AM EDT Reads: 4,693
SYS-CON Events announced today that CrowdReviews.com has been named “Media Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo, which will take place on June 6–8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. CrowdReviews.com is a transparent online platform for determining which products and services are the best based on the opinion of the crowd. The crowd consists of Internet users that have experienced products and services first-hand and have an interest in letting other potential buyers...
Mar. 28, 2017 11:00 AM EDT Reads: 3,720
SYS-CON Events announced today that Infranics will exhibit at SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. Since 2000, Infranics has developed SysMaster Suite, which is required for the stable and efficient management of ICT infrastructure. The ICT management solution developed and provided by Infranics continues to add intelligence to the ICT infrastructure through the IMC (Infra Management Cycle) based on mathemat...
Mar. 28, 2017 10:45 AM EDT Reads: 3,309
SYS-CON Events announced today that Interoute, owner-operator of one of Europe's largest networks and a global cloud services platform, has been named “Bronze Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 20th Cloud Expo, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017 at the Javits Center in New York, New York. Interoute is the owner-operator of one of Europe's largest networks and a global cloud services platform which encompasses 12 data centers, 14 virtual data centers and 31 colocation centers, with connections to 195 add...
Mar. 28, 2017 10:00 AM EDT Reads: 1,556
SYS-CON Events announced today that SD Times | BZ Media has been named “Media Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo, which will take place on June 6–8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. BZ Media LLC is a high-tech media company that produces technical conferences and expositions, and publishes a magazine, newsletters and websites in the software development, SharePoint, mobile development and commercial UAV markets.
Mar. 28, 2017 09:45 AM EDT Reads: 4,443
SYS-CON Events announced today that Cloudistics, an on-premises cloud computing company, has been named “Bronze Sponsor” of SYS-CON's 20th International Cloud Expo®, which will take place on June 6-8, 2017, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY. Cloudistics delivers a complete public cloud experience with composable on-premises infrastructures to medium and large enterprises. Its software-defined technology natively converges network, storage, compute, virtualization, and management into a ...
Mar. 28, 2017 09:45 AM EDT Reads: 2,254
Now that the world has connected “things,” we need to build these devices as truly intelligent in order to create instantaneous and precise results. This means you have to do as much of the processing at the point of entry as you can: at the edge. The killer use cases for IoT are becoming manifest through AI engines on edge devices. An autonomous car has this dual edge/cloud analytics model, producing precise, real-time results. In his session at @ThingsExpo, John Crupi, Vice President and Eng...
Mar. 28, 2017 09:15 AM EDT Reads: 4,088
There are 66 million network cameras capturing terabytes of data. How did factories in Japan improve physical security at the facilities and improve employee productivity? Edge Computing reduces possible kilobytes of data collected per second to only a few kilobytes of data transmitted to the public cloud every day. Data is aggregated and analyzed close to sensors so only intelligent results need to be transmitted to the cloud. Non-essential data is recycled to optimize storage.
Mar. 28, 2017 08:15 AM EDT Reads: 3,190
"I think that everyone recognizes that for IoT to really realize its full potential and value that it is about creating ecosystems and marketplaces and that no single vendor is able to support what is required," explained Esmeralda Swartz, VP, Marketing Enterprise and Cloud at Ericsson, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at @ThingsExpo, held June 7-9, 2016, at the Javits Center in New York City, NY.
Mar. 28, 2017 08:00 AM EDT Reads: 4,459