Welcome!

Java IoT Authors: Tim Hinds, Elizabeth White, Yeshim Deniz, Douglas Lyon, Stackify Blog

Related Topics: Java IoT

Java IoT: Article

"Let's Bundle Free Java with Linux," Says IBM's Sutor

"Let's Bundle Free Java with Linux," Says IBM's Sutor

"If you could get every Linux distribution with an official, certified Java implementation where you could count on what it did, what its characteristics were, that would be a very powerful thing," said IBM's Bob Sutor last week, as a follow-up to Sun's dismissal - as "bonky" - of his suggestion that IBM and Sun should team up on open-sourcing Java.

When asked who would provide such a Linux-Java distribution, Sutor replied that this was precisely one of the things IBM wants to talk to Sun about.

Sutor disagrees with Sun's Jonathan Schwartz that Java would fork just as Linux has done, if open-sourced. He thinks that the "forking" argument is, as he puts it, "overstated." He even threw Schwartz's "bonky" characterization back in his face, saying that the market is capable of deciding for itself:

"Yes, there are different Linux distributions, but there are main distributions, and the kernel tends to be very consistent. If you're doing 'bonky' things then the market will reject them very quickly, you have to give the market, and the customers, credit."

Bundling open-source Java with Linux distros would create a compelling OS platform that would help to further boost Java's standing in the market, in Sutor's view. Plus such an implementation could also benefit "from the combined expertise of each Java vendor."

"IBM does some things better than others, maybe others do some things better than IBM," Sutor conceded. "If we could pool our collective resources and arrive at the best possible common implementation that is widely available, it would mean we could put fewer resources on this."

The week will doubtless bring a response from Sun and indeed from other Java vendors.

More Stories By Java News Desk

JDJ News Desk monitors the world of Java to present IT professionals with updates on technology advances, business trends, new products and standards in the Java and i-technology space.

Comments (21) View Comments

Share your thoughts on this story.

Add your comment
You must be signed in to add a comment. Sign-in | Register

In accordance with our Comment Policy, we encourage comments that are on topic, relevant and to-the-point. We will remove comments that include profanity, personal attacks, racial slurs, threats of violence, or other inappropriate material that violates our Terms and Conditions, and will block users who make repeated violations. We ask all readers to expect diversity of opinion and to treat one another with dignity and respect.


Most Recent Comments
Maynard 03/10/04 05:14:59 PM EST

Why? They already gave the community Eclipse, and they do provide a lot of information on their webstie about devloping for Linux and so on.

Laura D 03/09/04 01:10:07 PM EST

IBM is just messing around with Sun and Java.
Open sourcing Java would be the beginning of end-of-life for Java.
"IBM does some things better than others" - yes bonky things. (example: SWT)
Java is already free, why do anybody want it open source?

umeshphirke 03/08/04 08:18:01 PM EST

How about IBM giving WebSphere giving to the open source community

Randy Poznan 03/08/04 05:15:07 PM EST

This is more of the AWT vs SWT saga between Sun and IBM. Ibm wants SWT and probably other technology added to Java and would like a open source way to do this. Sun doesnt want to lose control over what goes into standard API's and they hate SWT. My wish list for Sun would be to support every OS/hardware platform where there is demand. OpenBSD FreeBSD and sparc/linux etc. Also I have a feeling that someday if Java was GNU based OS utilities, shells, Daemons, and Servers could be written in Java. These would be immune from the type of bugs that C/C++ programs face.

CallMeIshmael 03/08/04 02:33:00 PM EST

Do we see massive forking of programming languages that ship standard with Linux today such as C++ or Perl? Why or why not? How can this similar experience help with Java?

Gorath99 03/08/04 08:57:00 AM EST

I really hope this works out. Not because "free as in beer" isn't good enough for me (it is), but because it'll help focus the Java community.

We want Java's greatest supporters on one line, so they can face the growing competition of C# instead of bickering among themselves about whose VM/Gui toolkit/IDE/Compiler is the best.

Getting an OSS Java is just a nice bonus.

javaxman 03/08/04 08:56:03 AM EST

IBM has maybe made more money from Java than Sun has...

There's also a great deal of ambiguity here as to what the heck might be open sourced. Does it mean there'll just be one open-source implementation which will be tested against the Java Compatability Kit for free, and other commercial ventures will have to continue licensing from Sun? Does it mean that not-for-profit ventures can get a copy of the JCK free? What would the license be like?

A big part of the problem here is that one of the strong points of Java is having a standard API with expected behaviors across all platforms. What Sun will ( and should ) *not* allow is some arrangement where I can grab the source, add some random API or change some existing API behavior to something non-compliant with the JCK, then release it as "x-man Java" or something. That would be very, very bad, and very likely kill Java.

Archangel 03/08/04 08:53:25 AM EST

Sun has publicly said they will talk to IBM about this. This doesn't amount to agreeing to do that which is proposed - open-sourcing java.

What they HAVE basically said is "We have officially turned to look at the road that may lead to an open source Java". This isn't the first step on the road to Sun being involved in an open source Java. But it's the precursor to that step, so I think anyone interested in Java will take note.

Just my 2c

David Mohring 03/08/04 08:52:14 AM EST

Just the Java J2ME,J2SE,J2EE Libraries

It would benefit the entire Java based industy, including the free software, open source and proprietary based vendors, to open license the core J2ME,J2SE,J2EE libaries and Java to bytecode compilers.

Java's primary strength, the ability to write code which is constantly portable across many vendors platforms, would be greatly enhanced if all of vendors were using the same core libaries.

To insure that the standard base core would not become polluted with incompatable forks, the source could be licensed with a clause requiring any incompatable changes or any additional classes or methords to be moved to and occupy only the vendors namespace. Another clause would require that the vendor version of Java bytecode compiler and any GUI IDE defaults to generating portable bytecode, without embedding any vendor specific references.

Contributions to the core standard would be required to licensed under the same open source license. The existing JCP standard body could decide what becomes part of the Open Java Core.

It should not be necessary to open source license Sun's JVMs. In the long run it could greatly benefit Sun to develop the JVM under a dual license as it doing with OpenOffice.org and selling StarOffice.

[first posted to
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4465
and
http://lwn.net/Comments/72093/
]

njcoder 03/08/04 08:23:51 AM EST

There are open source versions of Java. The problem is, as they are now, they are no where near as good as the "commercial" implementations. Begging Sun to open source Java is pretty much an admission that the open source community cannot develop on its own something as good as what Sun has developed.

Java is a very popular language. Look at the statistics, more people are using Java than most other free languages such as Perl and PHP. More companies are looking for people with Java experience rather than other languages as well including Python.

What Sun should do is get rid of some of the stupid things in their license.

What IBM might consider sponsoring Debian in some way so that a highly optimized Java platform can be developed for Debian. SUSE has licensed the source from Sun for this very purpose. With debian gaining ground in the server market this would be a great thing to have.

I mention debian because of its popularity and its commitment to being free. If there could be a way to make Java free for cetrain things like free linux without making it free for everyone that would be great, but I don't think that is possible.

shirov 03/08/04 08:21:34 AM EST

I think the big advantage(s) of "open sourcing" Java will be seen when things such as the mess with the logging API''s and the use of the assert keyword are avoided.

qotra 03/08/04 08:03:52 AM EST

I use Debian, and generally speaking, if it isn't free enough for Debian, it isn't free enough for me. Beyond my hatred for the lack of JRE in the main unstable tree (which is really annoying), there is also an ethical ideal of truly free software that is being violated by Java.

Many people believe RMS is too hardcore about sticking to his guns on this issue, but I do believe he has a good point. Many programs are "free" for temporary use, and Java is one of them. Other examples of superficially free software are Windows Media Player and Adobe Acrobat, for which there are no guarantees of future freedom. These programs, like Java, introduce standards and structure that other people build on. If the freedom of these platforms was to be compromised, many poeple could stand to lose a great deal of work. The only way to guarantee the possibility of future support is to open source it.

NotFree 03/08/04 08:02:58 AM EST

It is NOT free enough because it cannot come by default with linux distros. License states that third parties cannot distribute Java Development Kit. It will be free enough for me when I can do:

apt-get install j2sdk-1.4.2

Now it is not. Of course having source available and having the right to modify and distribute your own version (e.g. optimized for athlon or modified to conform to debian-standards) of Java would be a HUGE bonus, but it is not THAT necessary.

BenBenBen 03/08/04 08:01:47 AM EST

As Schwartz says, the question -- or the worry -- is more around how to prevent somebody from forking Java and kill the "Write Once, Run Everywhere" idiom.

BaronAaron 03/08/04 08:00:51 AM EST

Any fork from the Java specifications would simply not be Java anymore.

I would imagine Sun would act as a gatekeeper if Java went open source. Anything code that breaks compatibility would not be included in the "offical" Java feed.

TheRaven64 03/08/04 07:59:49 AM EST

Actually, an Apache style license would be better. With the GPL, Microsoft could copy the core VM, remove a few classes, and add com.ms.* packages in large numbers that did not reference any GPL''d code directly, which would result in an incompatible implementation (they probably wouldn''t, since they''re ignoring Java completely in favour of .NET at the moment). Worse, another open source group could fork the project and change the behaviour of some of the core classes, making an incompatible implementation (which would still be bound by the GPL). If this implementation gained even a 5% market share it would be a problem.
With an Apache-style license, companies like Apple could incorporate the Java implementation into their OS, but would not be able to call it Java if they made any changes to the source. Sun (and possibly IBM) could then charge for performing compliance testing on a particular implementation, and allow use of the Java trademark to any implementation which passed the tests.

JPriest 03/08/04 07:59:07 AM EST

Maybe if they chose GPL we could have as many JVM''s as we do Linux distros.

leomekenkamp 03/08/04 07:58:36 AM EST

One problem: Sun successfully challenged MS in a court of law because MS ''polluted'' Java by putting incompatible stuff in java.lang and similar packages. You cannot (under the current Sun Java license) distribute any Sun Java stuff if you do that.

If Sun were to place Java under the GPL Microsoft could pull the same trick, and this time get away with it, thereby successfully polluting Java in such a way that a lot of developers will develop for MS-Java only.

gusmao 03/08/04 07:57:07 AM EST

The question is not whether someone will or will not turn java down because it is not free, but how much more wildly adopted and improved the language and the VM can become.

Futurepower 03/08/04 07:56:28 AM EST

One thing that needs to be said is that this is worth millions of dollars in free publicity for IBM. There are many programmers who, before IBM started supporting Open Source, would not have considered working for IBM.

I''m not saying that IBM is asking for Java to be open source because of publicity. But that support has a wonderful side-effect for the company.

It''s great to have a large organization like IBM that can use its voice to do something that has long been needed. The world needs better GUI support for Java.

JavaCre 03/08/04 07:55:12 AM EST

For my needs and preferences, Java is "free enough". Anyone who ever has turned Java down in favor of something else, because it is not free?

@ThingsExpo Stories
A strange thing is happening along the way to the Internet of Things, namely far too many devices to work with and manage. It has become clear that we'll need much higher efficiency user experiences that can allow us to more easily and scalably work with the thousands of devices that will soon be in each of our lives. Enter the conversational interface revolution, combining bots we can literally talk with, gesture to, and even direct with our thoughts, with embedded artificial intelligence, whic...
BnkToTheFuture.com is the largest online investment platform for investing in FinTech, Bitcoin and Blockchain companies. We believe the future of finance looks very different from the past and we aim to invest and provide trading opportunities for qualifying investors that want to build a portfolio in the sector in compliance with international financial regulations.
Imagine if you will, a retail floor so densely packed with sensors that they can pick up the movements of insects scurrying across a store aisle. Or a component of a piece of factory equipment so well-instrumented that its digital twin provides resolution down to the micrometer.
In his keynote at 18th Cloud Expo, Andrew Keys, Co-Founder of ConsenSys Enterprise, provided an overview of the evolution of the Internet and the Database and the future of their combination – the Blockchain. Andrew Keys is Co-Founder of ConsenSys Enterprise. He comes to ConsenSys Enterprise with capital markets, technology and entrepreneurial experience. Previously, he worked for UBS investment bank in equities analysis. Later, he was responsible for the creation and distribution of life settle...
Product connectivity goes hand and hand these days with increased use of personal data. New IoT devices are becoming more personalized than ever before. In his session at 22nd Cloud Expo | DXWorld Expo, Nicolas Fierro, CEO of MIMIR Blockchain Solutions, will discuss how in order to protect your data and privacy, IoT applications need to embrace Blockchain technology for a new level of product security never before seen - or needed.
Leading companies, from the Global Fortune 500 to the smallest companies, are adopting hybrid cloud as the path to business advantage. Hybrid cloud depends on cloud services and on-premises infrastructure working in unison. Successful implementations require new levels of data mobility, enabled by an automated and seamless flow across on-premises and cloud resources. In his general session at 21st Cloud Expo, Greg Tevis, an IBM Storage Software Technical Strategist and Customer Solution Architec...
Nordstrom is transforming the way that they do business and the cloud is the key to enabling speed and hyper personalized customer experiences. In his session at 21st Cloud Expo, Ken Schow, VP of Engineering at Nordstrom, discussed some of the key learnings and common pitfalls of large enterprises moving to the cloud. This includes strategies around choosing a cloud provider(s), architecture, and lessons learned. In addition, he covered some of the best practices for structured team migration an...
No hype cycles or predictions of a gazillion things here. IoT is here. You get it. You know your business and have great ideas for a business transformation strategy. What comes next? Time to make it happen. In his session at @ThingsExpo, Jay Mason, an Associate Partner of Analytics, IoT & Cybersecurity at M&S Consulting, presented a step-by-step plan to develop your technology implementation strategy. He also discussed the evaluation of communication standards and IoT messaging protocols, data...
Coca-Cola’s Google powered digital signage system lays the groundwork for a more valuable connection between Coke and its customers. Digital signs pair software with high-resolution displays so that a message can be changed instantly based on what the operator wants to communicate or sell. In their Day 3 Keynote at 21st Cloud Expo, Greg Chambers, Global Group Director, Digital Innovation, Coca-Cola, and Vidya Nagarajan, a Senior Product Manager at Google, discussed how from store operations and ...
In his session at 21st Cloud Expo, Raju Shreewastava, founder of Big Data Trunk, provided a fun and simple way to introduce Machine Leaning to anyone and everyone. He solved a machine learning problem and demonstrated an easy way to be able to do machine learning without even coding. Raju Shreewastava is the founder of Big Data Trunk (www.BigDataTrunk.com), a Big Data Training and consulting firm with offices in the United States. He previously led the data warehouse/business intelligence and B...
"IBM is really all in on blockchain. We take a look at sort of the history of blockchain ledger technologies. It started out with bitcoin, Ethereum, and IBM evaluated these particular blockchain technologies and found they were anonymous and permissionless and that many companies were looking for permissioned blockchain," stated René Bostic, Technical VP of the IBM Cloud Unit in North America, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at 21st Cloud Expo, held Oct 31 – Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Conventi...
When shopping for a new data processing platform for IoT solutions, many development teams want to be able to test-drive options before making a choice. Yet when evaluating an IoT solution, it’s simply not feasible to do so at scale with physical devices. Building a sensor simulator is the next best choice; however, generating a realistic simulation at very high TPS with ease of configurability is a formidable challenge. When dealing with multiple application or transport protocols, you would be...
Smart cities have the potential to change our lives at so many levels for citizens: less pollution, reduced parking obstacles, better health, education and more energy savings. Real-time data streaming and the Internet of Things (IoT) possess the power to turn this vision into a reality. However, most organizations today are building their data infrastructure to focus solely on addressing immediate business needs vs. a platform capable of quickly adapting emerging technologies to address future ...
We are given a desktop platform with Java 8 or Java 9 installed and seek to find a way to deploy high-performance Java applications that use Java 3D and/or Jogl without having to run an installer. We are subject to the constraint that the applications be signed and deployed so that they can be run in a trusted environment (i.e., outside of the sandbox). Further, we seek to do this in a way that does not depend on bundling a JRE with our applications, as this makes downloads and installations rat...
Widespread fragmentation is stalling the growth of the IIoT and making it difficult for partners to work together. The number of software platforms, apps, hardware and connectivity standards is creating paralysis among businesses that are afraid of being locked into a solution. EdgeX Foundry is unifying the community around a common IoT edge framework and an ecosystem of interoperable components.
DX World EXPO, LLC, a Lighthouse Point, Florida-based startup trade show producer and the creator of "DXWorldEXPO® - Digital Transformation Conference & Expo" has announced its executive management team. The team is headed by Levent Selamoglu, who has been named CEO. "Now is the time for a truly global DX event, to bring together the leading minds from the technology world in a conversation about Digital Transformation," he said in making the announcement.
In this strange new world where more and more power is drawn from business technology, companies are effectively straddling two paths on the road to innovation and transformation into digital enterprises. The first path is the heritage trail – with “legacy” technology forming the background. Here, extant technologies are transformed by core IT teams to provide more API-driven approaches. Legacy systems can restrict companies that are transitioning into digital enterprises. To truly become a lead...
Digital Transformation (DX) is not a "one-size-fits all" strategy. Each organization needs to develop its own unique, long-term DX plan. It must do so by realizing that we now live in a data-driven age, and that technologies such as Cloud Computing, Big Data, the IoT, Cognitive Computing, and Blockchain are only tools. In her general session at 21st Cloud Expo, Rebecca Wanta explained how the strategy must focus on DX and include a commitment from top management to create great IT jobs, monitor ...
"Cloud Academy is an enterprise training platform for the cloud, specifically public clouds. We offer guided learning experiences on AWS, Azure, Google Cloud and all the surrounding methodologies and technologies that you need to know and your teams need to know in order to leverage the full benefits of the cloud," explained Alex Brower, VP of Marketing at Cloud Academy, in this SYS-CON.tv interview at 21st Cloud Expo, held Oct 31 – Nov 2, 2017, at the Santa Clara Convention Center in Santa Clar...
The IoT Will Grow: In what might be the most obvious prediction of the decade, the IoT will continue to expand next year, with more and more devices coming online every single day. What isn’t so obvious about this prediction: where that growth will occur. The retail, healthcare, and industrial/supply chain industries will likely see the greatest growth. Forrester Research has predicted the IoT will become “the backbone” of customer value as it continues to grow. It is no surprise that retail is ...